The Hidden Memory [spoilers for 1.20]

[NYPinTA]

It was on last night and I kinda liked the 'not really crazy, only playing so they won't pick on him so much' Stark.
Anyone else?
I remember way 'back in the day' when this episode first aired that "yay! John's got a buddy!" (Cuz at this point, him and D'argo are still only allies right?)
First point of evidence:
J-"Your not crazy are you Stark?"
S-"No. But if they think I am they don't bother me so much."
See? He wasn't Mr. Repeats Himself really.... so then why was he nuts later?
Then, when they made it outside of the base and they have to shoot their way out, Stark is having fun and him and John are giggling like school girls! It was fun! So then, when he comes back, why is John kind of a jerk to him?
Also, I don't see why they had to kill Gilina... she could have just gone back, they shoot themselves out of there and then maybe somewhere down the line she comes in handy again, or not... but that's just me. I'm not really complaining about it, I'm just sayin.

[TalynLives]

Gilina was a tragic loss alright. Stark seems to have moments of sanity and moments of insanity.

[Chi27]

Yeah, I have to agree with Talyn, Stark seems to be a mix of sanity and insanity. I wonder if he was always that way more or less or the torture treatments in the chair have an effect on him now. Stark when he's not going "MY SIDE YOUR SIDE" and any variation thereof, is a little odd anyway. So maybe that's just the way he is naturally.

As for Gilina's death, I think it was necessary for her to die because her death marks the first in a line of people who later die that sacrificed themselves for J&A and the Moya crew.

[NYPinTA]

He just seemed not so crazy in this episode, except when Scorpious around... woulda been cool to see more of the not crazy Stark...

Originally Posted by Chi27

As for Gilina's death, I think it was necessary for her to die because her death marks the first in a line of people who later die that sacrificed themselves for J&A and the Moya crew.

Never thought of that. Good point.

[pkgrl]

Yeah, I have to agree that Gillina's death was symbolic of what John's going to be dealing with now that Scorpy is on his trail. She was, for the most part, an innocent, someone who was willing to help John, no matter the cost to herself. It was also important for the ptb to show us that the stakes have been raised, the danger is more imminent.

And I think Stark is just plain off his rocker. He has moments of lucidity and clarity (remember most of his time with Zhaan, especially in early season two) but when you deal with death as often as he has, it's got to have an effect on the mind eventually... unless you're a robot. Remember that even by ep 2.3 (only a few weeks/months after John's been in the Aurora Chair) John is wondering about his own sanity... and Stark had to relive... how many crossovers in that chair? for two cycles! Yeah, whatever sanity he was clinging to, he had a slightly better grasp on it then, but that's all.

(His dispersal in season two probably didn't help on that front either. )

[Doc Holiday]

Yeah I thought the Stark/Crichton friendship would last. They had been through a common misfortune at the hands of Scorpy.

[MrX]

Well, when Stark came back, Crichton was getting pretty close to cracking up, wasn't he? Wasn't he pretty temperamental to everyone at the time?

[Spedoinkel]

Originally Posted by NYPinTA

Also, I don't see why they had to kill Gilina...

I often ask the same question. However the series would have been quite different if Gilina had lived. Especially J/A/G relationship. But noble meaningful deaths happen in Farscape, and I accept them. They give the character a very definate effect of the others.

Yeah, I have to agree that Gillina's death was symbolic of what John's going to be dealing with now that Scorpy is on his trail. She was, for the most part, an innocent, someone who was willing to help John, no matter the cost to herself. It was also important for the ptb to show us that the stakes have been raised, the danger is more imminent.

This is well said, but I can't sleep, so I'm trying to trow in my own babble.

Stark was at first appearing to be very intelligent with his "make them think your crazy" bit. Latter it turns out he is. Stark comes and goes like you've all said. Crighton at the time of his return had his own problems dealing with reality. Everyone got alittle distant from John. The nice foundations they had form was the only thing keeping them from tossing John out with the garbage.


Damn, brain SHUT UP! Me want go sleeeeee

[Lee in Limbo]

Hmmn. You know, I tend to agree with both of your points, NYPinTA. Gilina, though perhaps a necessary loss in the grand scheme of things (amping up the tragedy/risk factor), was a charming character who was instrumental in getting Aeryn to blow her cover as far as her interest in Crichton was concerned. It started the snowball. And frankly, those moments with her and John were pretty steamy.

The scenes with her in Nerve and A Hidden Memory where she tries to reconnect with him actually hurt, because you can see she's confused and hurt at being rebuffed. You can't help but feel that she deserves more, even if Crichton's feelings are heading elsewhere by this point.

As for Stark... having just rewatched these episodes again (second time through) in just the past few days, I was struck by how much I liked Stark after he let down his guard and started being Crichton's friend. They had a bond and good chemistry.

I think the problem was, when they revived his character, the stuff that stuck with everyone the most was his wild behaviour, and they went with that. It's one of the few instances in the series where I think they got it wrong, but then, there perhaps wasn't really too much room for a sane Stark in the crew at the time, what with Zhaan as the resident healer and D'Argo (eventually) as John's buddy. Sane Stark would have been a fifth wheel in the original cast.

Interestingly enough, now that they've resolved all of that, I think future visitations from Stark might go more in the mold originally suggested by their first adventure together. And I look forward to it, because that Stark is interesting to me. As much as I loved Roger Rabbit and WB cartoons, I don't really need a central character who is clearly deranged regularly shanghaiing the plot. I really came to detest Stark as the series progressed.

Ah well... c'est la vie.

[Spedoinkel]

I understand what you are saying about Stark. The "sane" one was more approachable, but he got overly wacked. And yes, he would have seemed a four wheel, but wasan't he always? We already had the panicy sort in Rygel. I don't thik that the saner Stark could have worked with how the story progressed, and way to much has happened to him, for him to be able to go back to what he was.

[Nutty_Angel]

to the Gillina thing, i was thinking that maybe the ptb felt they had to close that story line compleatly, so that John would get over her. And so it would make him realise how much he wants to be with Aeryn. It also means we have our first death of a character that we care for (that i can remember anyway)

To the stark thing, anything could have happened to him while he was away from Moya to make him the nutcase he came back as, or he could have been sulking without the need to hide his thoughts he would have just started actully seeing them without hiding them the whole time.
Another point is that he could just not be able to stop pretending he's mad, because if you do something long enough it becomes habit.

Anyway thats my view on this (god i've written alot my brains gonna explode from all this thinking!). BTW if i've splet anything wrong i don't mind if you tell me, i'm really bad at spelling.

[James T D Argo]

As sad as it was Gilina had to die. She would've complicated the John/Aeryn relationship. John and Aeryn were destined to get together. I remember in an interview or commentary, that was brought up. It had been planned since the show was concieved. The chemistry between Ben and Claudia just sealed the deal.

My theory about Stark is that his power to cross people over slowly drove him crazy. I'm not saying that he wasn't already off his rocker, I think it just drove him more and more over the edge. I think it was a gift/curse situation, a two edged sword so to speak.

Warning spoilers for those who haven't watched season 3 !!!!!!!!
Farscape newbies don't read past this point




























I also think Zhaan's death affected his sanity profoundly.
That's my theory about Stark.

[Nicola]

I agree with James T. D'Argo. Gilina (as much as I liked the character) had to die. But my reasoning is a little different. We tend to have quite in depth discussions on the Canadian Spaceboard and we discussed this topic during one of the airings. If you don't mind I will copy my post from the Spaceboard...

Like a lot of viewers I was really sorry when Gilina died. I thought there was enormous potential for her character and for a complicated relationship between her, Aeryn and John.

So why did the writers kill her off?

So, for what it is worth, here is my answer. I think that Gilina's death represents the symbolic death of Aeryn's emotional ties to the PK's.

Let me explain. IMO Gilina is the mirror image of Aeryn.

She is blond, Aeryn is brunette.
She is a tech, Aeryn is a soldier.
She makes one set of decisions, Aeryn makes the opposite.

Gilina represents (IMO) what Aeryn loves about the PK's. She speaks for the part of Aeryn that is torn between her new life on Moya and her old life with the Peacekeepers. As has been said Gilina is ""brave, loyal and fair".

In 'PK Tech Girl' Aeryn says to Gilina;

"You know what happened to me, being deemed irreversibly contaminated by Crais. Contamination by enemy life forms. That could happen to you. The punishment is death. Or worse - banishment. I hope you can only ever imagine how horrible it is to never return to the life that you love. You are smarter than that, Gilina."

The poignancy in Aeryn's voice, her longing to return to the life that she loves is clear. And Gilina got that chance.

That was in "PK Tech Girl". In "The Hidden Memory" Aeryn doesn't think this way anymore. Her opinion on this issue has undergone a radical shift. She says as much to Crais while he is occupying the Aurora Chair.

AERYN: You know what I learned when I was away from you? Everything I lost isn't worth a damn. And I don't want to go back to your past.

Aeryn's loyalty towards the PK's has died.

And Gilina has died.

And both at the hands of a PK leader. Whatever was good about Aeryn's previous life has been killed....by a PK leader.

So...symbolically it was crucial that Gilina die during this episode.

But there was more symbolism tied up in Gilina's death than just the symbolic relationship between Aeryn and the Peacekeepers.

I found the use of symbolism in this episode to be devastatingly effective. The writers wove symbolic threads from previous episodes into this one and used this powerful emotional tool to paint a different (although complementary) story than the one that the actors lines demanded. If used clumsily this technique could easily have destroyed the entire show right there. Instead...well, it was a tremendous success.

In "PK Tech Girl", Gilina and John work together as 'techs' to protect the crew and Moya from the Sheyang by fixing and installing the 'defense' shield. While they were doing so, Aeryn, the warrior, has to take offensive action against a Sheyang pilot to protect them. At the end of the episode Gilina, the person most like John in this new universe, chooses to return to the PK's leaving John alone and cut off from anyone who might share his pacifistic viewpoint.

Once again, Gilina's tech abilities come in quite useful during "A Hidden Memory", but again, John has to be rescued by Aeryn, the warrior. At the end, when Gilina has to take offensive action and fire the pulse rifle to force Scorpius to release John, she can't. Because of her inability to be 'more' Gilina dies.

And because John, the tech, has accepted that to survive, he must change (he must be 'more'), he survives. Gilina, the tech dies, and John, the warrior is born.

I love the symbolism in this episode. It takes Farscape storytelling up to a whole new level, from fantastic to unparalleled. And this is the reason (IMHO) that Farscape will last a long, long time.

These last two episodes have been a whiteknuckle ride. Very sophisticated storytelling.

This episode gets out of five bounces.

Here is the link to the discussion thread: http://community.spacecast.com/cgi-b...;t=006757;p=23

We are now on Starburst Saturdays (having left Tralk Talk behind) but you are welcome to join in any of the discussions threads.

[blue]

"And because John, the tech, has accepted that to survive, he must change (he must be 'more'), he survives. Gilina, the tech dies, and John, the warrior is born."

I LOVE this analysis, and never thought of it before. Love when that happens, to see a new level in an episode I've seen so many times--this show is SO WELL-WRITTEN!

[Nicola]

Originally Posted by blue

"And because John, the tech, has accepted that to survive, he must change (he must be 'more'), he survives. Gilina, the tech dies, and John, the warrior is born."

I LOVE this analysis, and never thought of it before. Love when that happens, to see a new level in an episode I've seen so many times--this show is SO WELL-WRITTEN!

Yep. Which is why I am head over heels, tail over tea kettle in love with this show. (Nothing to do with leather pants. I swear. )